Debate with an Atheist 2

Original statement (by an atheist):

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." [Isaiah 45:7]

This verse is clear and unambiguous and shows that God created evil. There has been a lot of obfuscation and apologetics regarding this verse, but it is still there in all of its glory. There is no way around the conclusion that God is evil.

My reply:

Your logic is flawed. Creating somthing doesn't make you the same as the thing you created. Good people can cause evil as evil people can cause good. A baker can create a cake but he is not a cake himself. God created evil but He is good.

Why did He create evil then? The angels asked Him the same question when He created humans. His reply? “I know what you do not know”

J.L.'s (Agnostic Atheist) reply:

The problem comes when the entity you call God knowingly creates evil aware that it will cause problems in the future (omniscience). In my opinion that is evil. If I knowingly create an antimatter bomb that I know will come in contact with matter and destroy the Earth, then that would make me evil.

My reply:

So was Einstein evil? Since he was aware that his work would directly contribute to the creation of an atom bomb. It's the two sides of a single coin in my opinion. To give something the capacity for greatness it innevitably comes with a risk of being misused for evil.

For centuries people have dreamt of creating an artificial intelligence that is self aware..able to think outside it's original design parameters...adapt learn and grow...have a mind of its own...truly greater than a program repeatedly running a set of fixed rules..unable to disobey (like angels?)..yet at the same time they fear that such an intelligence would turn on us for the worst...suddently it is capable of evil

So if a person managed to create such a brilliant a.i. would they hesitate? Would that make them evil? To create this advanced ai (although it has the potential to be evil)?

J.L's reply;

No because they are not omniscient. An omniscient being would know everything past, present and future. If God is not omniscient that why even call it God? Reminds me of a quote by a philosopher...

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God? -Epicurus

Note: I respect that you have great debating skills and I thank you for being respectful throughout this debate. I wish there were more theists like you.

My reply:

Thank you. My respect to you too.

To the Greek philosopher I say that his second is true. He is able but not willing (for if He had willed it not to happen it would not happen)

And so evil only happens by His will. To this I agree. However to conclude He is malevolent is short sighted. And to this i disagree. Although I did wonder this myself "why would God chose to let some people do evil?" And an answer occurred to me. If He prevented everyone from committing evil, (which He can easily do) then how would you know if humans were ever able to commit evil? If we could...then why doesn't anyone? No one would even know what evil was. So then it occurred to me. Perhaps evil is needed in the world. Perhaps it even teaches some people to be better people. It contrasts against good to make us appreciate the good more.

Anyhow that is just from my own reflection and God may allow evil for far greater reasons which we do not know but He knows. And He is the wise and knowing (omniscient).

J.L's reply:

You are correct, evil may be necessary even if it seen as a negative phenomenon. At least we agree on that. If it weren't for the "evil" extinctions that have happened in the past human beings may never have come to existence. It is up to human beings to know the difference between necessary "evils" versus evils that can be stopped or prevented (i.e. rape, genocide, murder, exploitation etc.). I am honored to share this piece of rock orbiting a humdrum star in an immense Universe with a respectful and courteous individual such as yourself. I just want you to remember, question everything.

My reply;

Agreed.

P.s. thank you. It has been a pleasure and honour exchanging thoughts with you.