Debate with a Jew

Q: Do the Jews believe in demons?

Me:

There are angels of light (no free will)…thus they cannot disobey

There are angels of darkness, a.k.a. fallen angels, demons, devils, jinn, etc (free will) …thus they can disobey

In modern interpretations of mainstream Judaism, the latter are largely forgotten, not given emphasis, and simply not taught about.  Believed to be unproductive to embodying God’s laws.  However, those who dig deep enough will find traces of the jewish teachings and beliefs on the subject.

hint: search for “mazzikim, shedim, and ruhot” etc

L R: 

There is no devil in Jewish beliefs.

Me:

"mazzikim, shedim, and ruhot.

shedim (Deut. 32:17; Ps. 106:37; cf. I Cor. 10:20), rendered "demons" or "devils" in most translations

The mazzikim ("harmful spirits") are said to have been created on the eve of the Sabbath of creation (Avot 5:6) but this late reference is the only one made to demons in the entire Mishnah. Among the accomplishments of both Hillel (Sof. 16:9) and his disciple R. Johanan b. Zakkai was their knowledge of "the speech of the shedim" ("devils," Suk. 28a). The latter also gave the analogy of a ru'ah tezazit ("the demon of madness") entering a man and being exorcised, in order to explain to a heathen the anomaly of the laws of the red heifer"

LR:

Yah, don't try quoting something when you don't know the language being translated. Often English words are used that have a specific meaning to certain groups to describe a completely different concept.

I once had a conversation with a rabbi who did a lot of interfaith work. When speaking to Christians he would use the word ‘hell’ to describe a Jewish concept on the basis that ‘hell’ is a word they're familiar with. I argued that ‘hell’ has such a deeply ingrained meaning for Christians that his audience would only hear that ‘Jews believe in hell’, completely ignoring that he was describing a concept that is completely unrelated to the Christian concept of ‘hell’. He agreed in the end and said that he was no longer going to use the word ‘hell’ when speaking about Jewish beliefs.

So, once again, no devil in Judaism and demons are nothing more than folklore.

Me:

Perhaps you are more knowledgeable and learned than rabbis, the talmud and torah translators combined. Or perhaps not

LR:

No, I just happen to know how to read Jewish writings in addition to knowing the context. You quoted something without the necessary knowledge to understand what you were quoting.

Me:

Perhaps you could enlighten me then. Or maybe you are deflecting since you do not know what they mean.

Me:

No?

Ok. Then i will give you some more quotes using the words in context.

35. And they mingled with the nations and learned their deeds. 36. They worshipped their idols, which became a snare for them. 37. They slaughtered their sons and daughters to the demons. 38. They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters whom they slaughtered to the idols of Canaan, and the land became polluted with the blood. 39. And they became unclean through their deeds, and they went astray with their acts.

Tehillim (Psalms), 106.35-39

17. They sacrificed to demons, which have no power, deities they did not know, new things that only recently came, which your forefathers did not fear.

Devarim (Deuteronomy), 32.17

Shedim is the Hebrew word for demons. The wordshedim appears only twice (always plural) in theTanakh, at Psalm 106:37 and Deuteronomy 32:17. It was possibly a loan-word from Akkadian in which the word sedu referred to a protective, benevolent spirit.

P.s. the original word is akkadian anyway...not hebrew. Doubt you speak akkadian. So thats probably why you do not understand its proper meaning.

LR:

Contrary to what you appear to believe, I do not monitor Quora so that I can respond to your comments immediately. Nor will I respond to aggressive and disrespectful comments such as what you wrote.

If you wish a response from me fix your tone.

Me:

hah! pot calling the kettle black

i wont press the issue any further. the facts quoted above are sufficient to answer the matter (even without your respected opinions or insights). thank you and good day.

LR:

Pointing out that one shouldn't rely on quotes when one doesn't understand the language or context isn't rude or aggressive. It's making a valid point. You didn't post any ‘facts’.

1. You posted an out of context quote of a discussion of false gods worshiped by other religions.
2. You quoted from a Christian Bible which is not considered valid within Judaism. There are no mentions of a devil anywhere in the Tanach (Jewish Bible).

So again, work on your tone and approach.

Me:

Firstly - you assume no one else speaks or understands Hebrew apart from yourself. that is arrogant and rude.

Secondly - there is an exact phrase in hebrew for “false god” and “idol” and this is not the word which was used. Even if the case you are making is that the false gods were being referred to - it does not exclude the fact that the word’s original meaning is “demons (sheddim - שֵּׁדִים )” - which may be used to refer to others’ gods in a derogatory sense - however this only acknowledges demons were known to exist and that they were not seen positively in the eyes of the writer. To say that the word is just a metaphor for idols or false gods is to play word gymnastics and reinterpret scripture to suit modern times.

p.s. - here are the same passages from the Tanakh (first one from Psalms/Tehillim and the second from Deuteronomy/Devarim)

‏106:37 וַיִּזְבְּחוּ אֶתבְּנֵיהֶם, וְאֶתבְּנוֹתֵיהֶם לַשֵּׁדִים

‏32:17 יִזְבְּחוּ, לַשֵּׁדִים לֹא אֱלֹהַּ ר אֱלֹהִים, לֹא יְדָעוּם ס חֲדָשִׁים מִקָּרֹב בָּאוּ, ר לֹא שְׂעָרוּם אֲבֹתֵיכֶם ס

LR:

1. I make no such assumption. If you yourself spoke Hebrew you would have known that the quotes you provided weren't correct translations. Instead, you quoted the Christian Bible (the new trend is for Christian groups to print Christian Bibles next to the original Hebrew).
2. There are a number of terms used to refer to false gods.
3. Shall I teach you what your religion really teaches using English translations of your religion’s writings?

There is no devil in Judaism and demons are relegated to folklore. Your personal opinion isn't going to change this fact.

Me:

you might as well put fingers in your ears saying “lalalalala”

even if you grew up with Hebrew as your first language - this would still not qualify you to know the correct meaning of words such as these without deeper study. They are not used in everyday contexts and the truth is no-one today speaks biblical Hebrew with any fluency. Furthermore, this word (like many in Hebrew) is a loan word from another language (Akkadian). Its original meaning is demons. You simply need to put it in an online translator to confirm this (שֵּׁדִים - copy, google translate, paste - try).

Granted, word meanings can change depending on the context - however, this is not the point I am demonstrating. The original meaning (as used by the author who wrote the passages) is “demon”.

If a man calls a child a “demon”, we all know the word is being used figuratively. The meaning of the word in this context is “naughty boy”, etc. Over time, the word may only be understood as “naughty boy” because no-one refers or believes in “demons” anymore. nevertheless, this doesn't mean the word used should be translated as “naughty boy”

anyway - I'm not trying to persuade you to believe in demons. The mainstream Jewish belief system has relegated “demons” to mythical creatures and folklore. that's fine. but if you study the passages in their original context - understood as those in the time understood it - you will find they did believe in demons.